Gerry,
I did some search and dug up some relevant posts back from Sept of 2013, for the ones that may have a hard time searching this group. (I find it a royal pain to search and find old posts) So below I copied and pasted some of the conversations. I hope this helps others who are struggling with handling of their coaches. Gerry, that was quite the write up and process you went through to finally succeed. Photos of those custom made pan rods would have been great! If you feel ambitious, could you put some up, it's never to late...
John
'95 Safari Serengeti 38ft, 300 Cummins 8.3CTA, Allison
6spd.
[Old posts]
"Wandering"
Expand Messages
There
have been several posts relative to the Coach wandering or not driving
straight. People tend to blame tires, shocks, steering boxes, alignment,
what have you.
I've had Safari's since 92, and what several of us has found out is that
the problem "none of the above", not to say that all of those could be
problems.
The basic issue is related to the type of suspension on the Safari and
many other coaches. It's a solid axle (beam axle)suspension, rather
than an independent suspension. While many coaches have solid axle
suspension in the rear, the Safari has it in the front.
When a wheel hits a bump, the beam axle suspension also transmitts
some of that force to the other side, and the end result is that the
entire axle move slightly sideways, enough to cause the coach to
"wander". The springs, whether rubber or metal, don't control this
precisely.
This can occur in either the front or rear suspension, although the rear
suspension on the Safari is more resistant to this than the front.
This is well known in racing circles, where precise steering is very important.
The cure is a diagonal link, with one end fastened to the chassis and
the other end fastened to the axle. Usually only needed at the front
end.
Camping World used to carry such an item made by Henderson Lineup in Grants Pass, Oregon.
Henderson’s Line-Up 417 Henderson Street (formerly 417 S.W. Marion
Lane) Grants Pass, OR 97527. Phone: 541-479-2882 Toll Free: 800-245-8309
They manufacture a complete line of suspension parts as well as what I have mentioned.
If you call them, ask them also about the Safari Tie rod problem.
My wife wouldn't drive either of our Safari's, our 92 34' or our current
96 40', but after adding the tie rod, she is completly satisfied with
how the 40' drives.
Hope this is useful.
Gary Great explanation, and possible solution. Thanks. Dave '95 Safari Ivory Edition, 38', Cummins, 2004 Liberty toad There
have been several posts relative to the Coach wandering or not driving
straight. People tend to blame tires, shocks, steering boxes, alignment,
what have you.
I've had Safari's since 92, and what several of us has found out is that
the problem "none of the above", not to say that all of those could be
problems.
The basic issue is related to the type of suspension on the Safari and
many other coaches. It's a solid axle (beam axle)suspension, rather
than an independent suspension. While many coaches have solid axle
suspension in the rear, the Safari has it in the front.
When a wheel hits a bump, the beam axle suspension also transmitts
some of that force to the other side, and the end result is that the
entire axle move slightly sideways, enough to cause the coach to
"wander". The springs, whether rubber or metal, don't control this
precisely.
This can occur in either the front or rear suspension, although the rear
suspension on the Safari is more resistant to this than the front.
This is well known in racing circles, where precise steering is very important.
The cure is a diagonal link, with one end fastened to the chassis and
the other end fastened to the axle. Usually only needed at the front
end.
Camping World used to carry such an item made by Henderson Lineup in Grants Pass, Oregon.
Henderson’s Line-Up 417 Henderson Street (formerly 417 S.W. Marion Lane)
Grants Pass, OR 97527. Phone: 541-479-2882 Toll Free: 800-245-8309
They manufacture a complete line of suspension parts as well as what I have mentioned.
If you call them, ask them also about the Safari Tie rod problem.
My wife wouldn't drive either of our Safari's, our 92 34' or our current
96 40', but after adding the tie rod, she is completly satisfied with
how the 40' drives.
Hope this is useful.
Gary
Yes, you are describing a PANHARD ROD, also called a TRACK BAR.
It
attaches to the axle on one side and chassis on the other. It allows
full up/down movement, but controls side to side movement of axle to
chassis.
Pioneer Metals has them for the Torsilastic suspension.
Additionally,
on the Torsilastic suspension they offer Radius Rods that minimize bump
steer-- where the axle is driven back when the tire hits a bump which
causes a steering input that the driver must correct for.
http://www.pioneermetalworks.com/tigertrak.htm
I am not aware of anyone who offers Panhard rods for the leaf spring suspension, but would be interested if anyone knows of one.
Brett
Ya don't need a panhard bar with leaf springs. Dwayne Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
From: <bawolfe10@...> Date: 15 Sep 2013 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: [Safarifriends] RE: "Wandering"
Yes, you are describing a PANHARD ROD, also called a TRACK BAR.
It
attaches to the axle on one side and chassis on the other. It allows
full up/down movement, but controls side to side movement of axle to
chassis.
Pioneer Metals has them for the Torsilastic suspension.
Additionally,
on the Torsilastic suspension they offer Radius Rods that minimize bump
steer-- where the axle is driven back when the tire hits a bump which
causes a steering input that the driver must correct for.
http://www.pioneermetalworks.com/tigertrak.htm
I am not aware of anyone who offers Panhard rods for the leaf spring suspension, but would be interested if anyone knows of one.
Brett
Dwayne,
Don't know the answer, since I am not aware of anyone who has tired it.
I can tell you that track bars/panhard rods make a material improvement in both Ford and Workhorse leaf spring chassis.
At this point, I just want more information to see if they would make a difference on the Safari leaf spring suspension.
The
question boils down to one of whether there is any side to side play
between axle and chassis in the leaf springs or spring bushings.
Cliff, I
have a '97 30 foot Sahara with springs. I had harrowing experiences
with the semi trucks as well as sudden side winds and was determined to
solve that problem. I could not have my wife drive as it was not safe.
Mine was like yours, anything over 55 mph made my unit shift sideways
almost getting out of control. The unit had a safe-t-plus steering
stabilizer already installed. I would have traded my unit for a motor
home with a longer wheel base with the generator mounted in front of the
front axle but I could not afford to make the change. My first
attempt was to put on Bilstein shocks, little effect. Second, replace
and tighten the sway bar bushings in front and rear (including larger
bolts and bushings), little effect. Install air bags front and rear,
some help but did not
resolve the problem (I can inflate and deflate on the fly), I learned
the problem is not front to rear or side to side motion. Installed a
homemade diagonal bar (pan rod type bar) off the bottom of the rear
axle, some improvement. I made a homemade front end pan rod system tied
to the frame and antisway bar, some noticeable improvement. Installed a
true center type steering system that can be adjusted on the fly that
works with the safe-t-plus system (now there is a better unit on the
market, look at the Blue Ox center steering stabilizer). This made an
improvement especially when you have a constant side wind or a road with
a crown. I then installed pan rod type bars on each side of the
chassis to the rear cross member, MAJOR IMPROVEMENT! Finally, after
seeing the moderators box on the front of his motor home (look at the
home page picture) I installed a class 4 front hitch in front and
mounted a trailer shaped aluminum box where I put my tools and other
heavy items, some improvement (I thought it was absurd to carry 700
plus pounds of lead weights in front as recommended by the factory).
Now I can drive at higher speeds and keep the unit under control. Semi
trucks come up from behind and pass me with very little effect. Even
with all my earlier improvements, until I stopped the crabbing motion of
the house on the spring chassis I did not get the unit to handle in an
acceptable manner. The cost for all parts was over $1,000 but now my
unit is a pleasure to drive. I hope that gives you some idea of
improvements you can make and the results you can expect. Gerry
Cliff, Keep us posted-- am also interested in whether a panhard rod would be a good addition to the Safari leaf spring suspension. Brett Don't
agree about the panhard bar and leaf springs, front or back. Leaf
springs have a rubber bushing in them that allows the axle to flex. The
panhard rod is probably even more effective on the rear than on the
front, as the towed car has lots of opportunity to "wag".
Google "panhard rod" and Wiki and see what you find. Talk to the folks
in Grants Pass. Join Safari_International. Get other opinions.
I wouldn't take mine off, and I think that we had one on the front and rear of our 92 Kenya as well.
Gary I
believe that the original reason that the folks in oregon developed the
panhard (trac rod) was specifically for the rear of spring suspensions.
I'd advise going to their website and checking it out.
We have also installed their replacement radius arms on the front of our
current coach. That was a slight improvment in steering (panhard rod
made the biggest improvement) but the real reason we installed was that
the ball joint on the Safari rod had rust in it. They had a box of
replaced rods. They said that lack of proper lubrication was the issue.
You might consider checking your tie rods and see if both ends have
grease fittings. Mine didn't.
Gary Found,
my king pins were not greased for along time and now trying to get an
alignment, but can not find spec's for 2000 Sahara ,3016, Goodrich
Velvet Ride. Where can I find these alignment spec's Thanks, Greg As
someone who has built suspension systems for jeeps, trucks, etc. a
trackbar will and can make a world of difference to help with on road
stability. I have built my fair share of custom trackbar set ups on
lifted leaf sprung trucks and jeeps. I will look into making a bolt on
"KIT" for my 95 Geti Gerald,
how about a little more info on your rear pan rod bars? I have done
almost everything you have except the front box, still wander a little.
Have rubber springs tho. Pete, '99 thirty foot sahara. From: "Gerald Poole" <brandipoole@...> To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:35:11 PM Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: "Wandering" Cliff, I
have a '97 30 foot Sahara with springs. I had harrowing experiences
with the semi trucks as well as sudden side winds and was determined to
solve that problem. I could not have my wife drive as it was not safe.
Mine was like yours, anything over 55 mph made my unit shift sideways
almost getting out of control. The unit had a safe-t-plus steering
stabilizer already installed. I would have traded my unit for a motor
home with a longer wheel base with the generator mounted in front of the
front axle but I could not afford to make the change. My first
attempt was to put on Bilstein shocks, little effect. Second, replace
and tighten the sway bar bushings in front and rear (including larger
bolts and bushings), little effect. Install air bags front and rear,
some help but did not
resolve the problem (I can inflate and deflate on the fly), I learned
the problem is not front to rear or side to side motion. Installed a
homemade diagonal bar (pan rod type bar) off the bottom of the rear
axle, some improvement. I made a homemade front end pan rod system tied
to the frame and antisway bar, some noticeable improvement. Installed a
true center type steering system that can be adjusted on the fly that
works with the safe-t-plus system (now there is a better unit on the
market, look at the Blue Ox center steering stabilizer). This made an
improvement especially when you have a constant side wind or a road with
a crown. I then installed pan rod type bars on each side of the
chassis to the rear cross member, MAJOR IMPROVEMENT! Finally, after
seeing the moderators box on the front of his motor home (look at the
home page picture) I installed a class 4 front hitch in front and
mounted a trailer shaped aluminum box where I put my tools and other
heavy items, some improvement (I thought it was absurd to carry 700
plus pounds of lead weights in front as recommended by the factory).
Now I can drive at higher speeds and keep the unit under control. Semi
trucks come up from behind and pass me with very little effect. Even
with all my earlier improvements, until I stopped the crabbing motion of
the house on the spring chassis I did not get the unit to handle in an
acceptable manner. The cost for all parts was over $1,000 but now my
unit is a pleasure to drive. I hope that gives you some idea of
improvements you can make and the results you can expect. Gerry
It
is the same principle as the diagonal rods but they will run from front
to rear (one on each side). You have to make up two brackets to attach
on the u-bolts that hold the rear spring stacks together, then make two
brackets to attach to the rear house frame that runs from side to side
over the drive train. Then you have to make up the attaching rods. It
requires a fair amout of drilling, welding and fabricating. You have to
do both sides to stop the body shifting. Gerry
For some reason the only way I can post to the group is via email, when I try from the group site it never goes through
There
are many factory leaf sprung rigs that use Panard or track bar to
stabilize the rig. I myself have built them for truck that guys used to
haul fire wood and water in AZ. Makes a world of difference. I will
take a look at mine and see if I can figure out a bolt on kit for my 95
geti. I have built many suspensions over the years for race and
rockcrawling
B It
sounds like the two that are in front of the front axle, one factory
installed and the other by me. I have "Velvet Ride" but I guess the
principle is the same. Did you make them screw adjustable? From: "Gerald Poole" <brandipoole@...> To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:10:23 AM Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: "Wandering" It
is the same principle as the diagonal rods but they will run from front
to rear (one on each side). You have to make up two brackets to attach
on the u-bolts that hold the rear spring stacks together, then make two
brackets to attach to the rear house frame that runs from side to side
over the drive train. Then you have to make up the attaching rods. It
requires a fair amout of drilling, welding and fabricating. You have to
do both sides to stop the body shifting. Gerry
Yes
they are adjustable. Several years ago I travelled with a buddy cross
country, he has a 36 foot Winnabago. He kept his water tanks nearly
full to make his rig drive better (he has an air bag system). This is
the same principle as putting 700+ pounds of weight on the front of our
rigs to load up the suspension. On a couple of occasions we encountered
strong side winds that lasted for half an hour or more. I didn't have
any trouble driving even curved roads at 55 mph but he was still
swerving at 45 mph. Now that fuel prices have doubled I do not make the
long trips as often but when I do, I don't get as fatigued like I did
when I was fighting the steering wheel. Gerry Sent from my iPad It
sounds like the two that are in front of the front axle, one factory
installed and the other by me. I have "Velvet Ride" but I guess the
principle is the same. Did you make them screw adjustable? From: "Gerald Poole" < brandipoole@...> To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.comSent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 11:10:23 AM Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: "Wandering" It
is the same principle as the diagonal rods but they will run from front
to rear (one on each side). You have to make up two brackets to attach
on the u-bolts that hold the rear spring stacks together, then make two
brackets to attach to the rear house frame that runs from side to side
over the drive train. Then you have to make up the attaching rods. It
requires a fair amout of drilling, welding and fabricating. You have to
do both sides to stop the body shifting. Gerry
Gerald,
how about a little more info on your rear pan rod bars? I have done
almost everything you have except the front box, still wander a little.
Have rubber springs tho. Pete, '99 thirty foot sahara. From: "Gerald Poole" < brandipoole@...> To: Safarifriends@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 6:35:11 PM Subject: Re: [Safarifriends] Re: "Wandering" Cliff, I
have a '97 30 foot Sahara with springs. I had harrowing experiences
with the semi trucks as well as sudden side winds and was determined to
solve that problem. I could not have my wife drive as it was not safe.
Mine was like yours, anything over 55 mph made my unit shift sideways
almost getting out of control. The unit had a safe-t-plus steering
stabilizer already installed. I would have traded my unit for a motor
home with a longer wheel base with the generator mounted in front of the
front axle but I could not afford to make the change. My first
attempt was to put on Bilstein shocks, little effect. Second, replace
and tighten the sway bar bushings in front and rear (including larger
bolts and bushings), little effect. Install air bags front and rear,
some help but did not
resolve the problem (I can inflate and deflate on the fly), I learned
the problem is not front to rear or side to side motion. Installed a
homemade diagonal bar (pan rod type bar) off the bottom of the rear
axle, some improvement. I made a homemade front end pan rod system tied
to the frame and antisway bar, some noticeable improvement. Installed a
true center type steering system that can be adjusted on the fly that
works with the safe-t-plus system (now there is a better unit on the
market, look at the Blue Ox center steering stabilizer). This made an
improvement especially when you have a constant side wind or a road with
a crown. I then installed pan rod type bars on each side of the
chassis to the rear cross member, MAJOR IMPROVEMENT! Finally, after
seeing the moderators box on the front of his motor home (look at the
home page picture) I installed a class 4 front hitch in front and
mounted a trailer shaped aluminum box where I put my tools and other
heavy items, some improvement (I thought it was absurd to carry 700
plus pounds of lead weights in front as recommended by the factory).
Now I can drive at higher speeds and keep the unit under control. Semi
trucks come up from behind and pass me with very little effect. Even
with all my earlier improvements, until I stopped the crabbing motion of
the house on the spring chassis I did not get the unit to handle in an
acceptable manner. The cost for all parts was over $1,000 but now my
unit is a pleasure to drive. I hope that gives you some idea of
improvements you can make and the results you can expect. Gerry
RE: " Ya don't need a panhard bar with leaf springs. Dwayne" Dwayne,
Maybe that device isn't the solution, but it would be nice to have
something for the tail-wagging-the-dog scenario for us with the leaf
springs. I had a Roadmaster steering stabilizer installed. Afterwards,
I noticed a big improvement when hitting bumpy roads. The porpoising
dropped off dramatically and the related lane-wander decreased as well.
But
when I'm on I-5 and the semis or other mh's pass me by, I get the
push-pull affect from their pressure wave. I'm always amazed to see
other mh's cruising down the highway at MUCH higher speeds that appear
to be tracking steady in their lanes. Me? Gotta keep it at 55 or less
to stay safe. I'm
thinking about making a trip to Oregon next summer and adding some
extra time to drop by Henderson's for them to analyze the mh and offer
up a solution. Possibly, I'll be wasting our money. But the blog
comments about them tend to be positive and we'd like our little mh. So
I'm hoping for the best. :-) Regards, Cliff '98 Safari Sahara 30
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